it is claimed that natural law can be compromised...
while it is true that aristotle had only his senses
with which to acknowledge the presence and actions of nature
his thoughts cannot be easily disregarded
"modern" man tends to look at nature through
a synthetic series of designed scientific lenses and techniques
with the presumption that we know so very much now///
but do we?
edward osborne wilson states that we only know about 10% of
all the existing species on the planet
certainly we know more about insect life than aristotle ever did
aristotelean realism states quite simply
in refering to laws governing the observable world
that each thing is determined by its essence
that it becomes what it is and it is what it becomes
and this being and becoming are for all practical purposes eternal
and things are what they are by their given beingness of what they are
they all the things can be nothing other than what they are
and what they are determines the way they will propogate
or shall we say continue to be
and for all practical purposes for all we know that is the way they were designed
( i doubt aristotle ever used the word 'design'
i simply think it accounts quite practically for what it presumes to mean )
other phenomena
not just flowers
a rose is a rose is a rose i suppose
and a bee is a bee
and a tree is a tree
and the succeding generations of trees will be very much
like the trees from which the seed was assumed
and trout as well
and loons
yes loons have always been loons as far as we know
and they have danced through the eons in complete loonacy
the seasons indicate a rhythm and from year to year they rhyme
the basic things which everyone agrees are more or less standard in the world
the clouds etc. will always be the clouds etc.
the magnetic polar determinations of the swirling of smoke and water
the tides the waves of the sea
all sentient animated beings participate in the propogation of their species
to which each animate thing belongs and this tends to reproduce the species in
consistent patterns of ongoing similarity,,,,given the species this could be either directly or indirectly...given the species it can be no other way
man has learned to tamper with this
there is a whole industry of artifical insemination
a whole industry of legally protected murder
human beings propogate in much the same way as other mammals birds insects fish
of course style and preference come into play as do social arrangements and seasons
as do environmental factors
and the management exercises of modern sex play come into play
but given the natural way of things -most humans- the vast majority of humans
enter into a very natural complimentary arrangement of nuptial life
it is only the human beings the only species on the planet
who are given the ability to exercise the will
in relation to sexual interaction...
some will argue that human intuitions regarding sex are
but
left- over programming from prehistoric animal based activity...
man is a rational animal
but often irrational
man is a ritual animal
man is a pathetic animal
man is a philosophical animal
man is a childish animal
man is an amazing animal
man is a pleasure hungry animal
man is simply erect
it will be argued that human beings given to attraction
and the pursuit of satisfaction in the realm of sexuality
a physical attraction which involves common or same gender
which carries with it absolutely no chance of actual reproduction
do so naturally
others will argue these are learned patterns
or as i would say
failure to learn patterns
there is every indication in the natural world that
the anatomical forms inherent within the physiological makeup of each member of each species
which determine their involvement in the continuation of the specific species
are present to our observation and that these organs are given their identity
whether colloquially or scientifically and are determined by their basic functionality
ethics which presume to exist and formulate
moral imperatives which ignore the basic realities
the observable predictable patterns and forms
inherent in the observable world
are tools of injustice
any reflection upon moral obligations must at some level take into account
either explicitly or implicitly
the given presence of natural contingencies
it might be argued that homosexual ( i use this term in its purely scientific sense )
inclinations are observable in the animal kingdom
literally the term homo - sexual is a reduction of a concept that cannot exist without heterosexual determinants
animals are driven to procreate they are not driven to get comfortable with a mate
although some animals mate for life among the animals which mate for life
there is absolutely no record of homosexual relationship
animals -being extremely limited in intellectual tools
get it wrong sometimes
we can grant them that
it is no problem they get it wrong they smell something they go for it they get it wrong
they aren't trying to make a case for anything other than the possibility of getting it right
humans tend to be involved in the formation of conscious being
utilizing intellect imagination agility artistry and charm
as well as various dark tendencies
all of which combines to create a certain tension which results
for most people in some comprehension of right and wrong
granted there are exceptions... but very few
technology a legal system designed to accomodate the freedom of the individual
various reductionist sophistries which serve to orient the mind to mere self-serving ends
various patterns of pleasure management massive efforts to co-ordinate the various
skills and tendencies of 7 billion people a growing scientific self-confidence in relationship to the perceived control of nature the human ability to destroy life as we know it the human ability to tamper with human life in its most fragile state all this suggests to some people that we can manage the freedom of same gender relationships which go into constituting something akin to marriage
why would ethics based on natural law contradict that?
this is a vey good question
if we posit with thomas aquinas that the primary principle of natural laws is that they cannot be compromised by man we are then presented with a moral challenge of a binding nature
(i suppose we could imagine controlling a volcano by dropping a hydrogen bomb into the mouth of a volcano but then of course certain issues pointing to wisdom immediately arise)
it may be said that civilization as we know it develops from this awareness that certain things in nature bind us...later that was understood as being bound to god
a moral judgement based on natural law begins with very basic elements
say in sexual moral judgement
there is the immediate awareness now available by photography inside the womb of detecting
the gender of a fetus..this moment used to be a liturgical moment associated with every birth the announcement of gender...perhaps sometimes there would be an expresson of uncertainty
nevertheless it is natural law which posits the initial observable indication of gender
the reproductive organs are situated in close proximity to the functioning of waste removal from the body...this is natural law
it is important to distinguish one function from the other
that distinguishing is a moment of acknowledging natural law
once a distinction has been made then there comes a learned principle
and humans go through a learning period that is quite different than the other animals
most animals are learning the cycle of reproduction within a year of their existence
for humans it takes quite a few years perhaps between 12 and 30 ( we even must realize that for some this lesson is never fully learned )
nonetheless
the learning takes place that there is a relationship an essential relationship
between the reproductive organs and certain social possibilities with other human beings
it is also true that the principle of pleasure comes into play
and pleasure is her own teacher quite often
yet moral grounding which offers human beings the certainty of
basic human good and the possibility of nurturing the continuation of
ones family ones human family is then rooted in the primary awareness
of the relationship between the natural exsitence of reproductive organs
like
the
vagina and the penis and the satisfaction of this most basic intuition
can it go wrong
of couse
can learning be deficient
of course
will pleasure exert her own methods
to be sure
yet it would be a sad comment on humanity were the whole of civilization
given an endorsement to a physical practice which so egregiously defies
the basic principle of natural law as it manifests itself in the human body
it will be good for everyone to read
THE THEOLOGY OF THE BODY
by POPE JOHN PAUL II
i will conclude with an analogy
fire is basic to human nature
we don't know when this happened
very early in the developement of the human intelligence
perhaps more than a million years ago humans knew fire
it was a learning curve
they -our ancestors
had to learn to capture fire
to begin fire
to sustain fire
to use fire in constructive ways which facilitated survival
and they also realized quite certainly the destructive possibilities of fire
and the injurious possibilities of fire
given this it follows that at some point a child
is introduced to fire
a child might learn painfully that fire burns
a child will look in wonder and feel the warmth of fire
a child will observe the use of fire in preparing food
a child might then begin to manifest pyromaniacal tendencies
quite normal really the desire to use fire and perhaps create spectacles
to apprehend the power therein
( i'm reminded of a recent 4th of july when a nephew went absolutely berzerk around fireworks )
upon observing this tendency in a child a parent must exert both wisdom
and prudence and discipline
humans are the only creatures who can bring the will to bear
upon appetites and attractions
to will the good is not to provide a context for pleasure and satisfaction only
but to insist that any context for sexual life sustains the common good over and above the individual good for good must carry with it the universal agreement inherent in natural law
Wednesday, September 25, 2013
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12 comments:
to will the good is not to provide a context for pleasure and satisfaction only
but to insist that any context for sexual life sustains the common good over and above the individual good
i don't find it incredible that a same-sex couple can serve the common good.
you take a philosophical approach
and i respect that
i am not convinced
but i am listening
....anyone can serve the common good
even in states of sin i would guess
the consistency of moral consideration deriving from natural law is a little different than arguing for justice for people who wish to make decisions about their lives
there is a blatant hypocricy when it come to samesame folks wishing to have children
even if we could agree that the inclination in question is "natural" to the person it must follow that at some point the recognition of the proclivity carries with it an approach to sexual activity that is not involved in reproduction...it has been argued that these folks make good parents...but i see parenthood as an defiance of their "given state" and their willingness to decide about their lives based on that self-understanding
if i could lean toward psychology
for a moment i would argue that the categories spelled out by freud and the behaviourists regarding sexual inclinations and identities tend to fix persons in a ready definition of self and this leaves little room for transcendence...we are always more than our sexual identities
in my way of thinking the common good is deeply connected to natural law...the reality of natural law can be a tough teacher
i suppose we can make a case for individual happiness contributing to the common good...but then it would seem that all desire be recognized as subjective...and then a standard has to apply across the board...if sexual happiness is the standard for sexual ethics then essentially anything goes...all deviations from the norm must be accepted
recently there was a homily here which made a case for ethical justice above natural law...there can be good that defies natural law...i never heard a conclusion that satisfied my questions...it was merely an emphatic statement the preacher seemed to think there is a more humane way of doing ethics than the tradition of christian moral thinking rooted in the "orthodox" philosophical tradition aristotle augustine aquinas....john hanson
( sorry )...i'm not at all convinced
one could argue that invitro fertilization defies natural law...it seems that is more a matter of humans intervening within the natural process to make a connection the humans can't make on their own...and it is in mind of bringing about success where for what ever reason humans are incapable
there is such a thing natural abortion...but once the life process has begun it is woven with the fibres of god...the natural thing is to allow the natural process
...and...
human behaviour is complicated o don't i know and the human need for love is difficult too o don't i know...but it is integral to being human
but the common good as understood by thomas is one thing and the common good as understood by the positivists and the pragmatists is another matter...thomas retains a restrained and respectful view of nature..he's not ready in the 13th century to suggest man might one day control nature in many ways...modern rationality is more or less convinced we've got a handle on these matters and that should determine the ethical stance...my conviction is that the whole sexual affair of modern or post modern man or what-have-you these days is far from clearly understood...it's all far uglier than hollywood or contemporary images dare to tell us
if pursuit of happiness is the shared goal of civilization or the means to the goal then it has to be compared to the beatitudes and the explicit christian traditional goal - the desire for our ultimate happiness....
"unity" with regards to samesame people is much harder for my simple mind to grasp than the possibility of various christians uniting
i hope i seem willing to have my mind opened about this
i've thought about it a lot and my scene here is or was rather steeped in the whole argument last year...so it's not as if i'm in a complete vaccuum...perhaps my mind would change if i had to live amid folks who struggle in a far more demanding everyday world...but i doubt it
i honestly believe that the whole argument needs to include chastity and the possibility of living ones life in total dedication to god
i think within the sexual act of man and woman there is a visceral self renunciation which is honored within the parameters of marriage...outside of marriage it seems to be destructive
samesame boyboy girlgirl stuff it seems to me is ultimately a self satisfying proposal..."i'm this way and i want this"
thanks
jh
.....
...
http://www.catholiceducation.org/articles/sexuality/se0254.htm
...
i would argue that the categories spelled out by freud and the behaviourists regarding sexual inclinations and identities tend to fix persons in a ready definition of self and this leaves little room for transcendence...we are always more than our sexual identities
i wonder if a similar arguement could be made about Catholic-Protestant relations--that we too easily use the categories of "Catholic" and "Protestant" to define who Christians are, leaving little room for transcendence.
nonetheless, the argument as applied to sexual orientation is an interesting one. i will continue to think about it.
i suppose we can make a case for individual happiness contributing to the common good
the case i had in mind to make was not limited to individual happiness, but to the possibility that a couple in relationship (whether same sex or not) can serve the common good in ways that an individual cannot--they can spur each other on to good works; they can learn forgiveness and forbearance and patience.
if sexual happiness is the standard for sexual ethics then essentially anything goes
i don't think Christians who support gay marriage are saying that sexual happiness is the standard for sexual ethics. they may simply be saying that in forming a life-long partnership with someone for the common good, it is wise to be honest about one's self.
one could argue that invitro fertilization defies natural law...
not only could one argue this, but the Catholic Church DOES argue this, does it not? At least I assume that it does, but maybe I am wrong.
i would agree that in vitro fertilization is unnatural. does that make it morally wrong? i don't know. i am open to thinking that way, but not convinced enough that i would want to impose that view on others.
my qualms about in vitro fertilization stem not from the fact that it is unnatural but rather from the fact that in order to achieve success more embryos are created than one intends to bring to term.
once the life process has begun it is woven with the fibres of god...the natural thing is to allow the natural process
i agree
for myself at least
but again
i am not certain enough of this
that i would want to impose my views on others
samesame boyboy girlgirl stuff it seems to me is ultimately a self satisfying proposal..."i'm this way and i want this"
i'm sure there is some of that attitude out there
but let us not fail
to listen beyond that
to the deeper cries
of the human heart
i honestly believe that the whole argument needs to include chastity and the possibility of living ones life in total dedication to god
yes i agree
at the link you posted
father check alluded to this as well
and i was hoping he would go into it
in greater depth
but he seemed to do little more
than merely allude to it
my conviction is that the whole sexual affair of modern or post modern man or what-have-you these days is far from clearly understood
i agree
and i don't think that fr check
articulates a fully thought out
understanding of human sexuality either
i suspect that i might find
a more intellectually satisfying
treatment of the theology of the body
from other Catholic writers
....taking my arguments for natural law into the present social scene requires that i assume the the goal of wisdom should be the acknowledged end of ethical thinking...in what i take to be the attempt of the american courts and legislators to install and enforce moral principles by law it seems to me they are presuming authority they do not have...it is one thing to state the law it is another thing to claim moral authority over the lives of individuals...if moral authority is rooted in a relatively recent social political philosophy which heralds individual rights above all other concerns then it seems to me that there is a connected disciplining for individuals who stand opposed on moral grounds to the moral presumptions of the state
i echo fr timothy radcliffe who stated eloquently in response to questions about feminism...our first task as christiansin this matter is to come to terms with the feminine...to make the effort to really understand the feminine and to uphold and honor all that is good and noble in woman...but never in distinction to or separate from the masculine
the same might be said about sex in general and gender issues and readjustments in societies notions of individual rights...our legal morass tends to exclude the "god-given" nature of inalienable rights...and claims that the rights are given and protected by the constitution...for governing structures to assume that they can dictate to free human beings what the contexts for legal marriage are is then to grant the state the power of the church and thus to place the power of the state in opposition to the church
this is where i think natural law has to be considered...the church's appropriation of natural law carries with it a measure of compassion...the laws don't state one will go to hell for violations only that one kind of action while perfectly possible may defy the better understanding of natural law
as in the case of invitro fertilization...it looks very positive that in some instances a conception managed by medical science is possible first of all for science for the power of the understanding to bring that possibility about - this must be seen and understood by scientists as a good things...in the moral concerns expressed within our faith there is attention to more than just the individuals' happiness...the issue of the "other" fertilized eggs is merely practical by reason of the state and science...the issue takes on huge implications if we add concerns of natural law
i'm wondering - in this same light - if some purer light on the subject might be found by looking into the real nature of friendship...i always turn to david and jonathan...exemplars of intense loyal friendship - they loved in a way that was greater than man and woman
by focussing upon sexual contentment it is possible to arrange society in such a way as to protect the happiness of same gender relationships....but this is done in a sort of ignorance....for the higher virtue the greater goal is friendship...to mix sex in with that is to make it something else
it seems the article sufficiently articulates a more objective appraisal of human sexual behaviour - albeit assumed...to suggest to everyone that our interpersoanl intimate relationships must be god focussed is to take things up a notch or two
if 'same gender couplings' could see beyond their personal inclinations to something even greater...whether they choose to go there or not...the whole thinking order would change on the subject....
i of course speak as one who has forsaken his patriotic obeisance to the state
pax
thanks for your thoughts here
you do get me thinking in other possible realms
....
it seems to me that our interests in these issues
are in different directions
you seem interested
at a philosophical-moral-political level
my interest is in preaching the Gospel
what is the good news of God's saving grace
for people with same-sex attraction?
i don't think we can discern for them
what it means for them to grow into
the person that God has created each of them to be
i think we can only walk with them
in prayer
witholding our own imperfect judgement
(except in cases where harm
is being done to another)
....i guess yes i am dealing with the issue at the level of moral argument...sustained by philosophical reflection as is the tradition...i suspect marriage was always defended in christian circles by referring to moral argument and especially the remarks of st paul on this issue
i am more than willing to regard everyone at the level of person but i think everyone including me must be aware of a cultural consciousness amongst christians which by necessity has set up a wall of decency for all to behold
i was asked by stu and kirby over at LS to write out a treatise on natural law WRT the contemporary sex scene - kirby has been inviting outsiders to post essays on his site
i feel there is an intense moral scrutiny within the christian world today upon people in religious life particularly toward men - an intensification of the initial protestant critique which held people in relgious orders in high contempt and suspicion....am i making a personal claim of self-defense....i don't know...today's headlines in the trib. indicate there's a moral war afoot....am i to simply say o hey it's all alright now let's be friends
we can walk along innocently and entertain sin even endorse sin...with very good intentions ... for what...as a means for eventual grace
were i in the situation of having to accept patiently a couple of same gender folks rationalizing to me their existence and claiming marital rights i could no more lend empathy to their cause than i could to a friend who chooses to live in a divided state of adultery...i could only encourage repentance and confession...and perhaps deep sorrow
i'm certainly not about throwing stones
but neither would i grant anyone any more leeway than i grant myself
simply as a factor of social comfort
i am deeply at odds with prevailing trends
deeply
anyway
i take your words none too lightly
jh
....
i think there is a moral difference
between a same-sex couple
who wants to make a life-long commitment
for better or worse
and a heterosexual couple
who want to engage in sexual activity
without being willing to make that commitment
i'm not prepared to make an argument
in favor of gay marriage
i'm just saying that neither am i prepared
to condemn it just yet
for me it is still a matter of study
i respect your position
and my thinking has indeed been influenced
by your arguments
....i'm a bit hesitant to pursue this in light of the holy father's brilliant statements regarding far too much attention being given these subjects..i hesitated when kirby asked me to write something for that very reason...but it seemes apropos to the threads the streams of comments appearing...so i did
as i've thought about this i recognize that yours is the superior pastoral position your willingness to suspend judgememnt and honor the human inclination to love trumps in practicality my well wrought if rambling diatribes on natural and moral law
i thought further that my pastoral position has to do with how to welcome people to god's table...as i see it there's a problem at the door of the church...i suspect not many churches ( catholic ) have an open door policy to people living in same gender arrangements as the same would apply to a person steeped in extramarital entanglement...the only acceptable stance for those at the door is penitence...it is the common denominator
timothy radcliffe utilized a simple judgement when he spoke to us on this matter stating that there is no real possibility for the "unitive" aspect of sexual relationship to take place...psychologically speaking a couple can be together but in same gender styles it lacks the biological determinant for regeneration which the "unitive" aspect upholds
using the aspects of
unitive
regenerative
affective
as the relational determinants in marriage it would appear that in relationships of same gender
( i like avoiding using the term sex here because by its very nature it sugests distinction and reproduction ) these relationships if entered into with the same intent of man and woman can only supply the context for the 'affective' aspect....even if the regenerative aspect remains potential for the male / female ( not active ) the fact of man/woman satisfies the natural understanding of the essential elements of procreation.... i think i told you about the philosopher couple who worked here for years and who made promises of perfect chastity to one another upon marrying...and it used to be that there was alwasy some link between the "consummation" of the marriage and the sacramental character of it
.
and thus...
my thinking moves toward the ideas around bringing marriage with all the sacramental qualities woven into it over the years within the context of christianity while upholding the fundamental good of man/woman procreation....the effort must be to re-establish the sanctity of this institution....by insisting on the sanctity of it and offering sacramental affirmation....secular society has broken this down and basically turned it into a legal matter with negating options as a staple for consideration....marriage in the west is in a bit of a mess....the success rate increases dramatically with people who share faith... in no way can i see same gender affiliations helping the matter
i hold to the OT commandments in the understanding that anything outside of man/woman marriage was considered adultery....i'm still holding to this
you make a good case for people willing to be committed and responsible to one another...and perhaps we should consider this in terms of devoted friendship...but i think with that comes the notion of sacrifice
my resistance to it all is my resistance to the social behaviourist thinking of the past 100 yrs or so...it's a triumph of secular postivist humanism to be "rational" about the psychological character of humans...i.e. this characteristic appears it seems endemic to human practice...all religion aside it seems like between science and reasonable thinking we can allow this...the moral thinking about it stops at the appearance...but to provide a context for "union" where there can be no natural union only a psychological and physiological 'coupling' seems to me to fly in the face of how christains have always regarded the sanctity of marriage and the family...the extent to which that has always been lived out suggests some ambivalence i know
i am willing to be educated in a different light
but my heels are dug into the earth
i'd have to be moved somehow
thanks
jh
so nice to cyberchat civilly speaking
...
thanks for your words
i think we have reached a place of mutual understanding
i have no desire to dislodge your heels
you have good reason for taking a stand where you do
the move from diatribe to open and respectful conversation makes a world of difference to me
it opens up a space within me for thinking and reflection, for slow and gradual conversion, for hopeful, prayerful struggle to understand what it is that the Gospel calls us to
thank you for allowing me that space
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